C-119s at Fort Campbell,KY

On various forums discussions developed concerning the identities of these 2 C-119s.
My assumption by various research, for the time being, is: N15505 = c/n 10684. This was confirmed in 2005 when it was offered for sale (see below).
And 131679 = c/n 10676. This is more tricky...
Please read on.

Photos © Patrick B. Allis

The C-119 clearly marked as N15505 and is stored in the warehouse lot of the museum; the museums's historian, John O'Brien, was kind enough to climb on board and came back with the following info: "There are no markings on the plane. I can find nothing of much help on the history of the plane in our files. It came here well before my time. I just climbed into it this afternoon. There was a small data plate between the pilot and the copilot position with the following information:
Number 10684
Model C-119C
Control Number W33-038-AC-19200

N15505 was offered for sale on the internet during May 2006: http://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucalcat/ opened May 10th, and offered the following description:
AIRCRAFT, FAIRCHILD C-119G. N15505. S/N:10-676 DATA PLATE SEAL NO. 10684.
NOT OPERATIONAL. WINGS ARE OFF AND LAYING NEXT TO THE FUSELAGE. SOME MAJOR COMPONENTS ARE MISSING.
Location:
Don F. Pratt Museum
Fort Campbell, KY 42223-5919

During 2006 a price of usd 5.000,- was quoted to me as the asking price for this C-119.

A discussion on Air-Britain's Yahoo list (for members only) again raised some doubt about the true identity of N15505; Luc Wittemans sent me this in Oct03:
"The construction plate on board, read by Mr. O'Brien, is tied to a Norwegian Air Force (former Belgian Air Force) C-119; restoration or use of spares is thought to be unlikely. Documentation with the FAA of N15505 corresponds with a Canadian Air Force C-119 and this aircraft's paintwork seems to indicate former use by the Canadians."
The white top on this aircraft does not necessaryly mean a RCAF history: many of the tops of USAF Reserve C-119s were painted white after they came back to the USA. An example.
However....
Sabena did most of the IRAN (Inspection and Repair As Needed) work on USAF(Europe) C-119s and most of the refurbishing before they went to Belgium; and they painted their Air Force C-119s silver gray -- not white. A history reading: USAFE - Belgian AF (repainted) - Norwegian AF (wrecked) - back to USAF (repaired and repainted grey/white) .... seems highly unlikely !
If only we could take DNA tests on some of these airframes !!

The following exchange led to the above info:
....131679 is confirmed in AMARC records as having departed storage (off inventory Sep81). Recent inspection of the c/n plate of N15505 showed C-119C c/n 10684, which would make this aircraft the former 51-2695 and ex Belgian CP4/OT-CAD. However, N15505 is registered as c/n 10676 and still wears basic RCAF c/s!
CP-4/OT-CAD was one of a number of F models that went to the Norwegian Air Force following service with the Belgian AF. In Norway it was allocated the code BW-E although I think it had no serial assigned.
Seven of the eight C-119Fs, transferred from Belgium to Norway in 1956, survived; the only loss being, as it happens, 51-2695 (the former CP-4/OT-CAD) that crashed on 06Dec68. The others were taken back by the Americans when the RNoAF no longer had need of them and they were placed in storage at Davis-Monthan AFB, 51-2693/698/699 during May 1969 and 51-2692/697/702/705 in July 1969. All seven remained there until 1976 when they were sold for scrap to some of the adjacent yards.
Do you or anyone else know if any or all of the Norwegian C-119Fs were converted to G model? The example in the museum's backyard certainly has the fin under the tailboom of the C-119G.
The fact that N15505 showed a white top (photo top), resembling part of ex/Royal Canadian Air Force colourscheme (see also Bill Reid's photo below), would support c/n 10676 except the plate inside is definitve in my opinion and shows c/n 10684. The trouble with N15505=cn10684 is that it never flew with the RCAF (so where did the paintscheme come from) and cn10684 allegedly crashed while on lend/lease in Norway 06Dec68.
The search continues......... There seems to be no details on the crash in Norway; perhaps it was a mishap on an airport, quite possibly deemed "beyond economic repair", but.... maybe, just maybe, ...the remains were shipped back to the USA, for use of spares if you like or to complete the transfer of what was previously leased to the Norwegians by the Americans ...?!!
Gordon Reid visited the museum in July 2003 and noted that N15505 was now all silver, but apparently the tailnumber had been removed too.

This is the URL of the museum:
http://www.campbell.army.mil/pratt/

The following was sent to me during Oct.2003:
Hello Ruud; I stumbled on your website accidentally and got very interested. I was assigned to VMR-252 In the late 1950's I flew the R4Q-2 (C-119F) for about three years and about 2.000 hours out of MCAS Cherry Point,NC. Curious, I checked the log book and there was 131679 as my bird from Oct 4-9 , 1958. I was flying with our detachment out of Port Lyautey Morocco.
We kept 4 planes there supporting the Navy's 6th Fleet throughout the Med. We would fly 240 hours off of each airplane we brought over and then return it to Cherry Point for it's major check. We did not have an intermediate maintenance activity at Port Lyautey. The picture looks like old 679 except for one detail, the nose....
At that time all of our "Qs" had been retrofitted with APS-42 weather Radar. The Radome was bulbous as the picture shows but I remember it being smoothly faired into the nose, not looking like an add-on as the picture seems to show. Your notes said the museum had to modify the nose to make it look "Air Force" . It's possible that before 679 came into civilian hands the Radar was removed, since it was usable in several other existing aircraft. A look in the cockpit could tell, the CRT was huge and was fitted directly above the navigators station. All R4Q-2s were F models diverted from USAF contracts. and had the G models ventral fins as did most USAF F models.
The only real way to tell an F from a G is to check the props. The F had Hamilton Standards and the G had Aero-Products. After looking up 679 I realized that she took me to Palma for a 2 RON ("Remain over nights"). In 1958 Palma was absolutely WONDERFUL, but that's another story. About half of the R4Qs that you list are in my logbooks. Hope the info helps.
Ted,
Major USMC (ret.)

Bill Reid: "I found this picture. It was taken in 1957 at Trenton, Ontario. They are numbers 22101 (front) and 22131.
Thanks Bill !
Click here for slightly larger image.

So the C-119 in front is possibly 679, the nose looks little different though; but it was said, by the museum's historian, that it was modified to make it look "Air Force". But it adds weight to the theory that 131679 is ex/RCAF 22101 and thus c/n 10676. No reports exist of a recent visit inside 131679.
The photo prompted several reactions, resulting in the following:

There was a C-119 squadron based at RCAF Station Downsview. 436 (Transport) Squadron was there from 1956 to 1964.
The photo may have been taken at Downsview looking west from the parking lot, immediately north of Bay one of the old DHC Mosquito factory. There is a low fence still at this location similar to the one pictured. If correct, the double wartime hangar on the east side of the field (with the control tower) is immediately behind the two aircraft.
The two cars by the fence can be identified: the Ford seems to be a '57 and the Pontiac is a '54, the last year they made that body with the straight 8. The car on the left seems like a white coloured 1962, '63, or maybe even 1964 Pontiac, Oldsmobile or Buick! Obviously if the car is a 1962 or newer model, the picture could not have been taken in 1957 and maybe was taken as late as 1964 or even later.

I was an air force brat at Trenton in the 1960s. The aircraft in question are parked at the west end of the tarmac at 9 Hangar, in the background behind the fuselage of the front Boxcar is the base firehall and about 500 yards west was my home.
As far as the vehicle in question please refer to the attached as I believe it will help to clarify the time period. The attachment is from dealer promos for 1962 Oldsmobile Holiday88:

Thanks Mark !

Sean Keating advised me of a clue to identifying former Canadian C119's: the radar nose cone, if a museum has replaced it with a short nose, then the screw holes still show the outline of the original nose.

Sources:
Charles "Chuck" Lunsford has educated me a lot on C-119s.

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