QUESTIONS
ANSWERS
I have a small page on S-D and am keen to add to it:
www.uswarplanes.net/stewarddavis.html
Simon Beck
I am writing to enquire as to whether you could help me trace
the history of a Dakota aircraft for a local history group. The aircraft in
question is Dakota TS436, the last Dakota III delivered to the RAF on
october 21st 1944.The aircraft crashed locally and we would like to put up
some information along with its scant remains in the local museum.
We are based in Mere,UK.
I have been unable to get any records for the aircraft between its delivery in october and its definate service with 107 OTU squadron in January. I suspect that it was first delivered to the Heavy Glider servicing Unit (Netheravon) before operating with 107 sqdrn. If it did, then it may have taken part in operations over europe.
The aircraft crashed on the 19th Feb 1945 minutes after take off. It was
heavily loaded and failed to climb, crashing into a hill 2 miles from the
airfield. 21 passengers and crew died at the scene, with pilot commiting
suicide many months later.
The aircraft hit beech knoll, the gap in the trees torn by it is still visible. It broke up on impact and scattered wreckage over a wide area, some of which has been pulled from hedges (dumped after getting in the way of the plow) and cleaned to make up a small display. Most of the aircraft was removed during the war and very little is left, all showing severe high-energy damage but no burning.
C-47A-75-DL Construction nbr 19349: USAAF 42-100886 Delivered 29Dec43 - 8thAF 25Feb44 AF - 9 AF - TS436 RAF 107 OTU 10Aug44 - Crashed 19feb45 2 m. NE of Zeals, Destroyed by fire.
Source: "DC-1/2/3 the First 70 Years by Air-Britain.
Tim
That number would refer to 42-100757.
Douglas Serial nbr 19220, delivered 08Dec43 to the USAAF, served with 438 TCG - 8 AF 18Feb44 - 9 AF 88 TCS MARKET (Sep44) - Bradley 08Aug45 - Kellogg 08Aug45 - RFC Walnut Bridge 26Oct45 - NC54370 Transcontinental Air Express Corp, Stockton 26Apr46 - Southwest Airlines Dec46 - Pacific Airlines 06Mar58 - Amerine Turkey Breeding Farms, Oakdale,CA 06Mar64 - Crashed 24Mar67 Castle AFB, Merced, CA.
Source: DC-3, the First Seventy Years (Air-Britain, 2006)
Check:
US Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell AFB,AL
The plane should be totally stripped and preferably one that needs to be 'rid off'.
Looking at your website, there seems to be some dead DC 3’s around? Maybe I could give one a fitting purpose at Lone Star Executive Airport bringing attention to it and Starbird Aviation….
What would you guess the weight of a DC3 total stripped, carcass and wings and tail might weigh?
Dave
David Stapp (Feb.2008)
Ocean Point Aviation, LLC
www.oceanpointaviation.com
Suggestions:
If not restricted to Douglas propliners: e.g. C-7 / DHC-4 Caribou, a company has many aircraft lying about in Cape May,NJ
www.penturbo.com
If you really want to treat yourself, get a hold of one or Maurice Roundy's Starliners...
Recently bought by Lufthansa of Germany, they will move one from Florida to Maurice Hq in Auburne, Maine to join the other 2.
www.conniesurvivors.com/1-maurice_roundys_starliners.htm. Lufthansa will make a good one from those 3, there will be leftovers. See also www.starliner.net
First Air had a couple wfu HS748 at Carp a few years go. Wings on one were already cut off.
A few contacts to explore, for further contacts:
www.1941hag.org
www.spiritoffreedom.org
www.americanairpowermuseum.com
www.commemorativeairforce.org
More obvious places to look for vintage 'wrecks' would be Opa Locka in Florida and Greybull in Wyoming but the distance could be a problem. There is also an abandoned museum in Georgia but I wouldn't know how someone be contacted.
More to the southwest: Both at Roswell,NM and El Paso,TX have quite a selection of ConvairLiners stored.
And for an obvious choice: the AMARC and its surrounding scrapyards at Tucson,Arizona.
I have been unable to get any records for the aircraft between its delivery in October and its definate service with 107 OTU squadron in January. I suspect that it was first delivered to the Heavy Glider servicing Unit (Netheravon) before operating with 107 sqdn. If it did, then it may have taken part in operations over Europe.
The aircraft crashed on the 19th Feb 1945, minutes after take off. It was heavily loaded and failed to climb, crashing into a hill 2 miles from the airfield. 21 passengers and crew died at the scene, with pilot commiting suicide many months later.
Robert Broughton
My Dad is a WWII vet and I would love to buy him a ride.
Cheryl
This outfit flies vintage biplanes and Harvards (T-6s for our American friends!) out of Carlsbad-Palomar,
www.barnstorming.com
Also there is another outfit that flies a Stearman out of Bermuda Dunes near Palm Springs, but I cannot find a website for them. If your contact, whom I assume is US based, is interested I'm sure if they call BD airport (details are on the web) they would be able to help, or if they can lay their hands on a copy of the widely available Pacific Flyer the flights are advertised in there.
Eric van Gilder offered:
You may want to check with the Commemorative Air Force's Third Pursuit Squadron at Cable Airport. They have a C-47 that is in very nice condition and I am sure the folks down there would be thrilled to talk to a veteran of C-47s.
Clay Lacy also flies a DC-3 in United colors that is based at Van Nuys.
The Estrella Warbird Museum in Paso Robles recently took possseesion of a C-47 that was in Israeli markings when it arrived. I don't know it's current condition or status.
Yanks Air Museum at Chino,CA is also a great place to visit for vintage transports.
I have heard rumors of a wrecked Norseman on the shores of a lake in Manitoba. Somewhere between Kelsey generating station and YTH.
Apparently a 30 year old crash but nothing has been recovered from the site, WITCHAI LAKE, is the place. I have asked a few about it and no one knows...
Jason
George Chomokovski
www.norsemanhistory.ca [the aircraft] offers the following info on the crash of CF-ISM:
Crashed and destroyed June 16, 1978 at Witchai Lake, Manitoba. In a left turn shortly after takeoff the aircraft stalled and struck the water. One passenger drowned. During its time in Australia, several unauthorized modifications had been made. Among these was the shortening of the wing struts with a resulting decrease in wing dihedral. The resulting instability from this modification was considered to be a contributing factor.
I heard it was no longer there.. any pictures of this one or info?
John
wfu & stored Palma de Majorca, Spain 1965 (possibly told to land and seized at BRU-Cameroon flight with contraband) moved to Talberts Lawn Bowls, near Magaluf, for use as restaurant/night club " Bertonelli's Bar" 70s, unused by 1980, by 1996 derelict and scrapped 17Sep98.
Stewart
From Herman Dekker's website:
PH-DPP - Douglas DC-6 - c/n 43118
Registered 19Jun1963 for KLM NV, Den Haag. Named "Prinses Margriet". reg cancelled 22Jun1963.
EC-AVA: since 1970s at Mallorca,Spain in use as nightclub; scrapped, probably 1999.
Photo on Airliners.net
It is in the South West corner of Jackfish Bay and it was a large float plane. There is a monument there. The guy that owns the guide service there (Jim Metz Sturgeon Landing) found it years ago.
I have pics of the monument and the wreckage.
There were several people killed and a some survived, including the guy that walked out some 20 miles to get help! I think the wreck was from the late 1950's.
The daughter of one of the people killed hired Jim to take her to the site about 6-7 years ago. It is about a hour and half boat ride to get there.
Roger Sears
These two teenagers were working flipping burgers at the Nome Grill. At some point my father was helping someone deliver mail via airplane and the plane crashed...
All he has ever told me is that he was out in the wilderness for 3 days with a deceased pilot, one candy bar, and some curious bears! He really has very little to say about the whole traumatic event.
Is there any information on this tragedy out there?
Kristin Lang
I don't think online data will offer much, not of such an early date.
The NTSB may have some data, but an accident in 1948 is seems the earliest available online http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp - perhaps there are contact details to dig deeper.
And perhaps the answer is in Alaska; people of the Alaska Aviation Museum may be able to help:
www.alaskaairmuseum.org
Or perhaps through Alaska's Digital Archives: http://vilda.alaska.edu/index.php
The book Broken Wings (subtitled Tragedy & Disaster in Alaska Civil Aviation) details a crash on 06Apr44 in the chapter 'Whiteout' (page 262). The book is written by G.P.Liefer.
The accident concerns a Pan American Airways (flight 08) American Pilgrim 100-B, departing Nome that day with on board the pilot, 2 company flight mechanics and 3 passengers plus cargo and mail sacks. But the article states all perished in the crash, no survivors.
On arrival, she carried an "N" registration, but was converted soon to a Nigerian registration.
I worked for Vanni International, a security company at the time, and we leased the aircraft from an American company to move new bank notes from the central bank in Lagos to provincial towns around Nigeria, returning with old notes for destruction. A flight crew of 4, a managing pilot, flying pilot, 1st officer and a flight engineer, along with 2 maintenance engineers, came along with the plane. It was reputed to have been in use by the president of Mexico as his state transport aircraft, prior to it's conversion.
I'd really like to find out anything I could about the old bird. She was the first aircraft I took the controls of.
John Hunt
Vito provided following details:
Make that 5N-ATD c/n 44059. Acquired from the Mexican AF by Atlas Aircraft Corp. in Aug-1977 as N88975. Converted to freighter May-1978 then sold to Intercontinental Airlines of Nigeria in Aug-1978. Leased to Air Vanni same month, returned to Intercontinental Airlines in 1980. Stored Lagos. Offered for sale in Jun-1982, with a total time of 26062 hours.
Unfortunately its further fate is unknown to me. It was almost certainly scrapped, presumably at Lagos, and the registration 5N-ATD had been cancelled by 1990.
Aad.
But we have another candidate:
This must be:
C-118A c/n 44619/549
DD 07-02-1955 to USAF as 53-3248.
Bought by Interair Leases Inc. January 1977 and registered N92860.
Several operators/owners.
Leased by Nigerian Trade Wings (Van Air) July 1978.
Crashed 28-04-1984 at San Manuel, AZ, USA, while operated by Seagreen Air Transport. No fatalities.
See: Aviation-safety.net
Nils.
Back in April 1975 I visited the US and logged a DC-3 N61696 at West Palm Beach, Florida operated on behalf of AUTEC, the US Navy organisation which has a test site in the Bahamas. This outfit is mentioned on your website in relation to Fairchild F-27 N1004/N127HP of Hawkins & Powers, and you had some input from people who were associated with it. It apparently was flown by Imperial Aviation on behalf of AUTEC.
I was looking at the new Air Britain DC-3 monograph, and they have been unable to identify the DC-3 N61696. They have the reg in their index, but no c/n !! Apart from the fact that I saw it myself, this DC-3 is also reported several times in Aviation Letter at West Palm Beach 1974 to 1976, and in January 1976 without titles, so maybe sold around then, but what is its c/n and what became of it?? N61696 is now on the FAA register as a Cessna 172, since apparently 1975 and this DC-3 must never have been on the FAA register or Air Britain would have the details.
So, I wonder if I could have your help with this mystery. It is incredible that a DC-3 used on a government/navy contract would not be registered!
Karl
'AUTEC' stands for something like the Atlantic Underwater Test & Evaluation Center. There are arrays of underwater hydrophones that are used to measure underwater noise signatures,etc., so this is a DoD facility.
I would expect to find AUTEC included in the list of US Navy abbreviations on page 122 of the new Air-Britain book (Vol.1) but it's not included and nor is NOTU. AUTEC is also not included in the USAF listing on page 115, which is less surprising, but AFETR isn't included either.
I did some work with NOTU and AFETR in November 1975 when Pan American was a principal contractor and RCA provided technical services with other DoD contractors. I would imagine that AUTEC would employ similar contractors.
The Air-Britain book would be better if FAA files had been examined for all DC-3 N-numbers. The current cost of an FAA CD is $10 and there are about 4,500 DC-3 N-numbers, so an investment up to $45,000 would be required simply to check all relevant FAA files though, in theory, the files should be consolidated for each aircraft. I don't believe that such an investment has taken place but I do think that FAA registration cards have been examined.
Given the DoD/AUTEC connection, I would not be surprised if this aircraft had a "black" registration. Similar restrictions applied to Air America aircraft registrations at this time but these files are now available from the FAA. Try asking the FAA for the file on N61696.
In the case of Fairchild F-27 N1004 c/n 33, this was bought by Hawkins & Powers Aviation in Aug88. Previously it was with the US Navy as BuA 161628, which might give it an AUTEC connection. Before you look for a DC-3 connection with BuA 161696, I need to say that this was a Bell TH-57B.
Hope this helps.
Martin S Best
Also not an answer, but I have a slide of N61696 taken at PBI on 28apr75 in full mauve AUTEC colours. So this sighting is definitely correct.
AeroTransport Data Bank
I checked the FAA record cards and they do not have a record for a DC-3 as N61696...
In fact only two aircraft are noted as having had this registration: the first was NC6196 a Consolidated Vultee BT-13A cn 5576 ex 41-7446 (cancelled 12Oct55) and the other was N61696 Cessna 172M cn 17264737 assigned by Cessna 27Nov74.
So it looks like these were false marks!
Graham
Karl E.Hayes solved the mystery!
Can anyone help???
It is rumored to be C-82A N6887C (44-23015) but this is unconfirmed at present (Oct.2007).
Simon Beck
Sadly, after having been in the Parque Popular Infantil for 23 or so years, the C-82 was very corroded and bits were falling off and endangered the children playing in the park. It was beyond hope or restoration, so the management decided to have it broken up and trucked out for scrap.
This already happened late 2005, but until recently Google Earth still showed it in the playing park at coordinates 29.0788N 110.9446W. Apparently they very recently updated their imagery, and it no longer shows it now.
Unfortunately the dark twin boom you see at the airport is an IAI Arava. Much too small to be a C-82.
My Dad's name is Foster "Mac" McEdward. He flew for 54 years and was fortunate to fly a DC-3 N8009 for the last 20 years of his career. He was a member of the Hump Pilots Association for many years. Anyone out there remember him? He would love to hear from you all.
Dad is now 86 and resides in Vermont where he has called home for over 60 years. I also live in Vermont and would be happy to relay any information / reactions.
Do you have any suggestions as to where I can find out more about the Aero Service and people who worked for them during the early 60's?
Pennie Rand
www.humppilots.com
From my ship at anchor off of Great Sitkin, on the eastern side of the island, we could see the wreckage of the plane through binoculars. The tail and a section forward of the tail were visible. I am inclined to doubt that the wreckage was ever removed from Great Sitkin, but I have been unable to find a picture of it anywhere using search engines and I cannot see the wreckage using the Earth Google program. Perhaps it cannot be seen because of growth at the wreckage site through all of these years.
Do you have anything on this crash and the wreckage?
Robert V. Ricard
LCDR, USCG (Ret.)
My husband and I have been doing research on our family history. I have just today discovered your website on aviation history and photography. I noticed one entry from a Robert V. Ricard - LCDR, USCG (Ret.) asking for information about a plane crash that occurred on Great Sitkin Island in Alaska in September 24, 1959. Apparently he was involved in the recovery operation of the passengers and crew who were on that plane.
My husband's father, Arthur Heady, was one of the fatalities in that plane crash. Larry, my husband, was a young boy when his father died. In recent years we have been trying to gather as much information as we can about Arthur. Lt. Commander Robert Ricard's entry on your website is the first information we have seen of an eye witness account to the crash.
Christine Heady
Christine sent 2 newspaper clippings
1.Aleutian Airliner Crash Fatal
2.Plane Crash Kills 2 County Men...
3....continued
One time, on a clear day, I looked up to see a brown C-119 Flying Boxcar execute a slow but well controlled 360 barrel roll...
It was at about 2,000 feet, heading west, at moderate speed. I think it took at least 10 seconds to complete the roll, with little loss of altitude.
I pointed it out to a friend beside me, but it seemed that the story didn't get any interest when we told it. About 12 years later I asked a Navy pilot if it was possible. He said, "Yes, they could have rolled that airplane." I assume that there was no cargo on board.
What do you think? Was it deliberate, or was there a problem with flight controls? Was the C-119 sturdy enough to do that with no problem? Dave Baker
It is perfectly feasible to barrel roll any airplane, provided that the pilot has the skill to maintain exactly one G all the way around -- and nothing in the cockpit will be disturbed if he does it correctly. That can include a full glass of water without spilling a drop!
Probably the most famous roll was made by a Boeing test pilot. The Boeing president had invited all sorts of bigwigs to see the inaugural flight of the first 707 (at a lake near Seattle). The pilot not only rolled it... he rolled it twice. On landing, he was fired, but then re-hired when all the good publicity (about how strong the new airliner was) started coming in.
Although I flew an Albatross, our outfit in Libya had four C-119s (I'm not sure, but I think they were G models). The guys thought they were pretty rugged -- they often flew a 360 overhead (that's not the same as a 360 barrel roll) on landing and pulled 3 or more Gs in doing so!
Regardless, I don't think it's wise to roll anything that big as low as 2,000 feet.
One last true story.... two TWA pilots got into a discussion about rolling the 727 they were flying on a boring flight in the middle of the night. Believing they could do it without bothering the passengers, they tried it -- and promptly dished out and lost control. By the time they recovered they had lost 12,000 feet and torn several parts off the airplane, including gear doors, etc. (they had dropped the gear in the effort to recover). Needless to say, they were both fired.
I think the name "The Rocket" or "Rocket" was painted on the nose...?
Would you know if this was in fact a TAA or ANA DC-3 or C-47? Would you know of the stops the aircraft may have made en route Melbourne / Brisbane?
Michael
Clive: This was probably T.A.A.'s "Rocket" service Melbourne to Brisbane non-stop, operated by their Convair 240s.
Ah ! That 45 degree climb after take-off, pressed back into the seat, swallowing like mad to ease the pressure on the ears...
Andrew: Melbourne-Brisbane vv "Rocket Route", Adealide-Sydney vv "Cannonball Route", Adelaide-Perth vv "Blue Ribbon Route" and Adelaide-Alice Springs-Darwin vv "Boomerang Route"....
Ansett also called the Adelaide-Sydney the "Rocket Route" for a while.
Some other routes to FNQ/NT had names as well.
Movie release date 1954.
Linda Wingrove
From:
www.digitallyobsessed.com/
It shows one lay out which has 3 by 2 over about half of the cabin and further in the back 2 by 2; was described as "US domestic lay out L.749". There is also a lay out for the L.749 full 2 by 2: "basic long-haul over-ocean lay out used by a number of airlines". Another diagram shows full cabin 3 x 2 "all-Tourist" for the L.1049C Super Connie". And yet another, for the L.1049G of TWA, shows only a small section up front with 3 x 2, while the rest is 2 x 2 ("43-First and 20 Sky Tourist seats and lounge"). The L.1049G of TWA is shown as mainly 2 x 2 in 2 versions: "Night Time Domestic" (again only a small section up front with 3 x 2) and "Trans-atlantic configuration" (again only a small section up front with 3 x 2).
Did it fly President Nguyen-van- Thieu to Midway Island to meet President Nixon in 1969 ?
I took several shots of this plane at Clark Airbase in 1982; two were show in "Airliners" magazine.
I have only ever seen two other photos of this plane, all four are shown on VNAF.net.
Thanks, Dan
Alexandre (of ATDB online database) added to this:
The last part of its life is a bit of mystery: it was taken over by the new powers at Saigon in 4/75, becoming VN-C901, and there is no reason it could have been flown on an official mission to US-controlled Clark AB only 5 years later. So who escaped from VN circa 1980 onboard this aircraft ?
It was scrapped in Jan82.
More pictures at:
www.vnaf.net/photos/air_vietnam/air_force_one.html
"I know the plane was bought by, if I am right, the American Government as a gift for President Thieu.
The aircraft was an ex Pan American machine and overhauled in Miami.
Sadly it ended it days at the dump at Clark AFB in the Philippines."
Nils Rosengaard answered:
"As well as I remember (I saw it on the news), this is the a/c that transported President Thieu to the meeting with Nixon.
I have the following informations concerning the Vietnamese Air Force One
Airliners No.51 and No.53 have some colour pictures of the aircaft.
DC-6B c/n: 44111
Dlvd from Douglas as DC-6B / Line No.: 430
N6111C Pan American World Airways "Clipper Peerless" - D06Dec53 (from: DC-6 Production List and Pictorial History)
YV-C-EVG AVENSA - Bought 16May58 (source: same)
N6111C Miami Aviation Corp. - Bt 15Oct64: the a/c flew charters until 11Mar66 (Source: Airliners No.51 and Piston-Engined Airliner Production List)
N6111C Air Carrier Service Group - Bt 11Mar66, which prepared it as the Vietnamese Air Force One (Source: same)
XV-NCK South Vietnamese Government - D..Jun66 Air Force One (Source: Piston-Engined Airliner Production List)
XV-NCK South Vietnamese Government - Picture late 1960s? (Source: Airliners No.51 May - Jun 1998)
111 South Vietnam Air Force - Transfered ? "CK" 33 Wing, 316 Transport Sq. (Source: same)
VN-C901 Hang Khong Vietnam - Transfered ? (Source: same)
VN-C901 Picture Jan 1982 Clark AFB, Philippines (Source: Airliners No.53 Sep - Oct 1998)
VN-C901 Broken up 1980s? Clark AFB, Philippines (Source: Aero Transport Data bank)
C-119K concerned was 52-5936 (s/n 11115) en route to Jordan, and five perished as mentioned on the monument dedicated to the crew in the small village of Aulan.
Local people say it was shot down by a missile launched from french strategic missile defense squadron, located Plateau d'Albion...
Who could confirm ?
Jean-Loup
Fairways operated a scheduled service Rotterdam - Southampton/Eastleigh 1x or 2x a week, flew on a DC-3 myself.
Fairways was financed by SSM (Scheepvaart en Steenkolen Maatschappij) and was run by J.van der Toorren, a former naval pilot. After a short while Fairways was taken over by Schreiner-Aerocontractors , which later became Schreiner Airways and this company operated holiday charters with a leased Fokker Friendship (from Braathens, (based at Rotterdam), a detail I know because I myself worked there for 6 months a long time ago.
Van de Toorren later became Chief pilot with Schreiner.
Any help with more details?
R. van der Wal
Maurice Wickstead wrote:
Some years ago I translated Thijs Postma's book 'Dakotas under the Dutch Flag', below is the section on Fairways-
ANOTHER FLYING SHIPOWNER: FAIRWAYS
In 1961 yet another shipowner attempted to get an airline company off the ground. This time it was the turn of NV Scheepvaart and Steenkolen (SSM), which had been established in 1896 and maintained a service from Rotterdam and Harlingen to the east coast of England and Scotland.
On 25Jan61, permission was granted for charter flights to be carried out. A 32-seat Dakota was purchased from British European Airways and on 07Fe61 it appropriately received the registration marks PH-SSM in the name of the owners. As a trading name, the inscription "Transaero Rotterdam" was painted on the aircraft.
A month later a subsidiary was established, the Rotterdam Aviation Exploitation Company, which then acquired the use of the Dakota aircraft. The trading name was also changed to Fairways Rotterdam. The business developed successfully with charters to Lyons and pleasure-flights from Zestienhoven. A series of flights carrying lettuce and cucumbers from Westland to Southend was also
undertaken. During August of that year, a second Dakota was acquired and registered as PH-SCC.
Eighteen months later, in April 1963, Fairways one and only scheduled service was commenced, a twice-weekly run between
Zestienhoven and Southampton.
During the following September, Schreiner Aero Contractors announced plans to start passenger charter operations using a Fokker Friendship.
At the insistence of KLM, who were troubled by this "wild growth", discussions took place at the end of 1963 between KLM,
SAC, Fairways and Martin's Air Charter with a view to uniting these three charter companies under one flag. The Director of SAC, "Bob" Schreiner, was however not in agreement with the proposals and and disassociated himself from the negotiations. Dr. H. van der Vorm, the Director of Fairways and part-time director of SSM, was himself in accord with the proposed arrangements. Resulting from this, Fairways was incorporated into the financial and operational organization of MAC on 01Jan64. Thus, the Company became a subsidary of MAC and, in exchange for shares in Fairways, SSM acquired an interest in MAC, a similar arrangement whereby various ship-owners had earlier acquired their shares in MAC.
The Dakota's were then incorporated into MAC's fleet, meanwhile the Southampton service was maintained with two Doves of MAC in Fairways livery.
On 01Aug64 Fairways transferred its operations to Schiphol, the home-base of MAC, whereupon the route to Southampton was
discontinued. In Jan66 it was resolved to liquidate Fairways and the Dakota's, while retaining their original registrations, were re-sprayed in the livery of Martinair Holland.
Fleetdetails Rotterdamse Luchtvaart Expeditie Mij NV/ Fairways:
PH-SCC (cn19458)- Was LN-IAS Fred Olsen (1952), SAS (1947), DNL (1947), "U" Norwegian Air Force 42-100995 USAAF (1944)
04Aug61-03Jan66 To Martinair. Later OO-AVG, N3433E.
PH-SSM (cn13182) Was G-AJDE BEA (1950), ZS-DBV Africair Ltd. (1949), VP-KGL Skyways East Africa Ltd. (1949), G-AJDE AV Air Transport Ltd. (1948), ZS-BCA Mercury Aviation, AV Air Ltd. (1946), 42-93287 USAAF (1944)
07Feb61-03Jan66 To Martinair. Later WFU.
N.B. Between 07Feb61 and 03Mar61 was officially registered in the name of Scheepvaart en Steenkolen Mij. Hence the registration PH-SSM.
Malcolm Fillmore added:
The directors of the Rotterdamse Luchtvaart Expeditie Maatschappij were N. van der Vorm, H. van der Vorm and W. Herfst.
The charter services were undertaken in Europe, Mediterranean and West Africa.
During the early-1970s it was used by Macedonian Securities and Macedonian Aviation before it returned to Albion and was registered to McDonald Aviation (1975).
What was the nationality of Macedonian Aviation? Any relation with Greece?!?!
Elliott
Nils wrote:
From Flight International (21Mar1974):
Macedonian Aviation was formed in 1972 to operate passenger and cargo charter flights from Southend Airport. The airline is a subsidiary of the property company Macedonian Securities of London.
Head office: Southend Airport, Essex, England
Executives: Managing director, A.D. Odell; general manager, J.S. King
Fleet: One DC-3
Nils Rosengaard
And Maurice wrote:
Formed in the summer of 1972, Macedonian derived its title from the parent organisation, Macedonian Securities Ltd, a London property company.
The new airline was initially based at Luton airport with a Douglas Dakota and a DH Dove, although the latter was disposed of after only a few months. Commercial charter began operations on November 5, with a passenger flight by the Dakota between Southend to Rotterdam. Freight charters were also undertaken, amongst which was a series of movements to Brussels and Saarbrücken carrying car parts for the Ford Motor Company.
1973 proved very busy for this emergent airline, with passenger and cargo flights to numerous destinations around the UK and Europe, ranging a far afield as Bergen and Malta. Occasional scheduled services were also carried out on behalf of Intra Airways.
In December 1973, Macedonian’s Dakota headed north to Aberdeen to undertake a series of oil-rig support sub-charters on behalf of Site Aviation. Developing business in this area warranted the purchase of additional aircraft and thus in March 1974, the company obtained three additional Dakotas from British Island Airways. Two of these machines, G-AMHJ and G-AMRA, were in convertible passenger-cargo configuration and were placed in service on the Aberdeen-Sumburgh (Shetlands) route, carrying oil drilling machinery and crews. The original Dakota operated primarily from Southend on ad-hoc charters, which took it to such European destinations as Lisbon and Gibraltar as well as the near Continent.
From April 1974, Macedonian briefly became a scheduled operator when it took over the Rotterdam-Le Havre service of Maastricht-based Limburg Airlines, then undergoing reorganisation. By this time oil support work had became the prime source of the airline’s revenue, but the contractors were now demanding the use of turboprop equipment for their air services. Faced with this fait accompli, tentative negotiations were initiated with Air Canada and Eastern Provincial for the purchase of either surplus Vickers Viscounts or several of EPA’s HP Heralds.
Unfortunately, the necessary finance to support this new equipment could not be raised and lacking any viable alternative, Macedonian was forced to cease operations on November 6, 1974.
Fleet List:
DH.104 Dove 6: G-APZU (04511)
Douglas C-47A/B Dakota: G-AMHJ (13468), G-AMPO (16437/33185), G-AMPZ (16124/32872) lsdf Intra A/w 11/12.73, G-AMRA (15290/26735), G-AMSV (16072/32820) never entered service
Much of the above comes from Tony Merton Jones 'British Independent Airlines since 1945' published by The Aviation Hobby Shop.
G-AMPO was reg'd to Macedonian on 01Jul72, so it would have operated the first service, since the others did not arrive until 1973 & 1974.
Maurice Wickstead (AB 12868)
This is a Douglas C-118 (R6-D). I can't locate it on the web site. Have you acquired this airplane, or if not, do you know where it is located? I was an engine mechanic on this airplane in the latter part of the 1950s while in VR-21. Any info would be appreciated.
Tom
C-118B c/n 43680- Joe Baugher has 131577 to civil market as N820CS (Desert Eagle Aviation, Remort, OR)
FAA website (N-inquiry) has "Undel Tri" for Desert Eagle Avtn, reg'd since 15Sep89.
ATDB has "scrapped at D.Monthan"
Evidently, as I was told at the time, this was an immaculate C-118, had been fully refurbished and was ready to fly again and the fire was alleged to have been an arson attack from a disgruntled ex partner in the business or the airframe.
All that remained in the yard was the wing and centre section (now minus engines) and the rear end inc tail fin and tailplanes.
Graham
To a museum in Canada is somewhat unlikely. This aircraft was destroyed by fire during conversion work at Davis-Monthan in Sep/Oct 1989. I noted it there, stored with markings painted out and still intact, on 22-Aug-1988. The burned remains were noted there Oct-1989 and Jun-1990. No reports since, so I think it's safe to assume this aircraft was scrapped many years ago. Perhaps its nose section survived and now could be preserved somewhere...?
Also, C-FVUM is a Cessna 150, and has been so for at least 19 years.
Aad.
There were 10 C133A/B losses, according to the recent book by Cal Taylor:
1 40146 13Apr1958 Atlantic ocean local flight
2 71614 09June1961 off Japan to Midway
3 71611 27May1962 Atlantic ocean to Azores
4 90523 10Apr1963 nr Travis AFB local flight
5 62005 31July1963 ground accident - fire
6 62002 22Sept1963 Atlantic ocean to Azores
7 62014 07Nov1964 Goose, Labrador to Greenland
8 40140 11Jan1965 Pacific ocean, off Wake Island
9 90534 30Apr1967 off Okinawa
10 90530 07Feb1970 Nebraska (structural failure due to fatigue crack)
The 1970 flight is the only one fitting the timescale - those who lost their lives are listed as:
Maj. HW Tabor pilot
1/Lt DD Burdette copilot
M/Sgt JP Tierney flight engineer
T/Sgt JJ Clouse flight engineer
S/Sgt IE Bowers loadmaster
(?no navigator??)
Perhaps the confusion with Germany lies in the comment "Maj. Tabor had been assigned to the 40th TCS, Neubiberg, Germany" - looks like he never did take up his new appointment...
Chris [Air-Britain, member 14790]
I had been in Viet-Nam on the C-130 and was assigned to Dover. I only flew once in all the time I was there as the plane was grounded.
It was a experenence I will never forget.
I am trying to remember which one I flew on, but I believe it crashed in Germany a few weeks after I flew in it... I don’t see any reports of crashes in Germany, but I know it did as my room mate was killed on the flight.
Ronald
There may have been a short fleet grounding after the last crash (6 Feb 70), but the airplanes were put into service as soon as they were fixed. The "fix" for the crash causes was to put 16 4" aluminum bands around the entire forward fuselage, to prevent the skin from peeling off. The crash was caused when an old 11" skin crack propagated catastrophically to 17'. The skin began to peel off and flew into the number three prop. The airplane broke up rapidly, at 23,000'.
Cal Taylor (author of C-133, Remembering an Unsung Giant)
There was never an C-133 crash in Germany. Only a minor incident without injuries or more happened:
0-40143 of 436MAW was slightly damaged at Rhein-Main (Frankfurt airport) when veering off the Southern runway due to ice and snow on 06.01.69 arriving from Lajes. As far as I can remember that happened during REFORGER exercise. We Germans were proud at that time to see that our US allies had been able to transport so many troops to here within a few days (in order to fight against sudden massive Soviet tank attacking) with having nearly zero losses. A fatal crash would had aroused a great press echo.
Peter-Michael Gerhardt
Tim Mikus
B & G Industries, LLC
Greybull, WY
Do you require Fairchild or Fokker.
Please let me know what your looking for and I'll see if we have in stock.
Chris Mash
World Turboprop Support Corp.
I have recently read his first book: "Dancing in The Skies" (published by Grub Street The Basement, 10 Chivalry Road, London SW 11 1HT)
Now I am searching for his second book: Lucky 13...
This 2nd book is about his years in Africa.
Any help?
Jan Prikkel Jr
[Dec.2006]
I seem to recall some discussion on ABIX a year or so back and one of the members was trying to get copies direct from Cargolux, who seemingly still had them. But I don't recall seeing if he was successful.
If anyone can get a batch released, I am sure there are a number of us who would be willing to acquire copies! If we can get a good contact, maybe Mike Rice could get a load for resale on the Sales List.
The correct title is "Lucky No.13 - The Eventful Life of a Pilot."
Malcolm [Dec.2006]
If you find one can you let me know as I want one as well...
The number 13 is his Icelandic licence number. The book covers Biafra in great detail. Cargolux apparently published it as a personal favour to him around the time Tony Jonsson retired.
I was led to believe they had some left but I was never able to find out who to ask at Cargolux.
David [Dec.2006]
[As a result I received 2 copies! One I kept for myself and 1 went to Jan Prikkel. And I was able to direct others to promising sources, thanks all !]
I flew one for 4.5 years as well but the was back in the late 60's in the Air Force.
Any assistance would be appreciated.
Ben [Nov.2006]
Perhaps the former ERA Aviation DC-3s coul dbe converted as such, they are for sale at Courtesy Aircraft Inc. [Nov.2006]
on Nov. 2, 1953 I made a flight from Shannon, Ireland to Idlewild Airport, NYC that changed my life.
A short stop-over in Iceland made the trip particularly memorable, as I recall falling down on the ice upon deplaning.....no enclosed passenger walkways in those days!
I am interested in confirming exactly what model Constellation I flew on for that trip. A TWA Airline timetable with a publication date of 11-01-53 could probably provide that information, but I am unable to locate or download a copy.
I was on TWA flight #967 "Sky Tourist" out of Shannon, Ireland on Nov. 2, 1953, headed for New York's Idlewild Airport. The plane could have been an L749 or a 'Super Constellation" L-1049, but I'd like to find out for sure.
It would also be interesting to find out what the airline registration number was....I don't know if an airline timetable would contain such information. Have you any advice or can you offer other resource suggestions?
Tim
While some L1049 Super Constellations had been deliverd in 1952, they were only used on domestic routes.
The L1049G made her TWA international debute on October 12, 1955. For additional information about TWA's Constellation international service there's a great article by Peter Marson in Propliner issue #83. It even mentions flight #967.
Ralph
Try these folks:
http://www.airlinehistorymuseum.com/connie.htm
They're located at the airfield where TWA had its headquarters (Howard Hughes' office is visible across the ramp), and they maintain -- and fly -- an L1049.
They also are rebuilding a Martin 404 and a DC-3 in original TWA schemes.
They're devoted TWA historians, and they run a very nice, if small operation. If anyone has or knows where to get that timetable, it probably would be them.
Dave
We have an unserviceable aircraft Fokker F-27, MK-500 for training students but without maintenance manual.
We would be very grateful if you could help us to get Aircraft Maintenance Manual (AMM). As this aircraft is grounded and is in unserviceable condition we will be using this manual only for educational purpose so that we can train our students better.
Vishal Dhumal
91 98605 60515
Co-ordinator
Wingsss College of Aviation Technology ( India )
http://wingsss.com/
I have used Joe Baugher's serial number lists. C-47 ("Weather" on fin). The S/N could be 0-35772 or 0-36772 or 0-35272.
I can't find either of the numbers or anything close in Joe's lists.
Have you any advice? Can you suggest other sources? Brian Jones
43-15272 was shown as '0-15272' in 1966 and was Phillipine AF in 1975.
Lorence
I would feel pretty confident with 0-35772 (43-15772) !
I am currently looking for more information about the Stinson Model A Tri-Motor, low wing.
Plus: Mirow air service. They were absorbed by Alaska Air. Namely aircraft: NC-16154.
These Tri-Motors are very elusive. Only one left and restored, NC15165.
Any information is appreciated.
Dave
Some mention of Hans Mirow is made on the page www.dmairfield.com/airplanes/NC162W/index.html concerning Lockheed Vega 5B NC162W: "...sold it on September 19, 1935 to Hans Mirow of Nome, AK to be flown on skis for charter work in Alaska. It suffered its second accident at Nome on April 28, 1936. It was completely rebuilt by Northwest Air Service in Seattle, WA as of August 1936.
Mr. Mirow died in 1940 and the aircraft was licensed in the name of Mirow Air Service, Madeline Mirow, Executor, Nome, AK."
Mirow Air Service: info welcomed
Photo of NC16154
There is the ex/SAS DC-7C at Cordoba, it is c/n 45215 SE-CCF.
c/n 45061 LN-MOG at Musee de l'Air (France) as 45061 French AF
c/n 45553 SE-CCH at El Berriel, Gran Canaria as EC-BBT -
See www.airliners.net
And the nose section from DC-7C c/n 44929, OY-KNB, is at the Danish National Museum of Science and Technology (Danmarks Tekniske
Museum) in Elsinore (Helsingör) - www.tekniskmuseum.dk
I'm afraid that's all whats left of that grand fleet.
Nils
Halfway down your page here.. LN-MOB in Sudan: www.ruudleeuw.com/tmp-photos-2.htm.
If you insert the coordinates for Port Sudan Airport in Google maps you will see the plane sitting on the south side of the ramp. Not sure of how recent the image is though!
T J
The plane flew first to Prestwick in Scotland. On the way one of the engines caught fire and we spent the night in Prestwick. The next day the plane flew from Prestwick to Reykavik in Iceland, then to Goose Bay Labrador then to Montreal, where we stayed the night. The third day it flew from Montreal to Bermuda and then to Trinidad.
I understood that the reason the plane did not fly straight across the Atlantic was because there were storms and the plane could not fly over them because it was unpressurised. Does that make sense?
Finally do you know how many passengers it would have carried? My memory is just of one row down each side of the cabin, but I dont know if that is right
Angus Palmer
Mart
TCA's head office and maintenance base were in Montréal, so that might have been a factor in having some flights stop there.
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
Here are the dates of the to's and from's:
17518 (c/n 102): loaned to TCA as CF-TEK, 19.11.46; t/o/s by RCAF, 16.3.48; returned to RCAF, 20.4.49
17519 (c/n 103): loaned to TCA as CF-TEL, 17.6.47; t/o/s by RCAF, 16.3.48; crashed as CF-TEL with TCA, 12.8.48
17520 (c/n 104): loaned to TCA as CF-TEM, 21.1.47; t/o/s by RCAF, 16.3.48; returned to RCAF, 4.3.49
17521 (c/n 105): loaned to TCA as CF-TEO, 10.2.47; t/o/s by RCAF, 16.3.48; returned to RCAF, 31.10.49
17522 (c/n 106): loaned to TCA as CF-TEP, 20.3.47; t/o/s by RCAF, 16.3.48; loaned to CPA as CF-TEP (for proving flight to Shanghai, China), 1949; returned to RCAF, 15.8.49
17523 (c/n 107): loaned to RCA as CF-TEQ, 28.3.47; t/o/s by RCAF, 16.3.48; returned to RCAF, 25.6.49
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
TCA were supplied with 6 unpressurized North Stars (built for the RCAF) in 1947 but by 1949 I believe they had been replaced by pressurized North Stars. I think the seat pattern was 2aisle2 in those days. Flying westwards is against the prevailing wind on the Atlantic and even with DC-7C and L-1649A a refuelling stop was rare but not unknown....
M West
home.ca.inter.net/~rapickler/nstar.html
As an 'ancient' spotter from Prestwick in the 1950 to 1960 period, I do remember TCA North Stars, as well as those with the RCAF and sometimes BOAC Argonauts.
I am sure other people from Prestwick, of that vintage, will correct me, but I believe the TCA North Stars did not have the range to do London - Montreal direct in most weathers. In fact the Prestwick calls were scheduled, not just fuel stops. Sometimes they could do Prestwick - Montreal direct in favourable winds, but often they would go Prestwick - Gander or Goose Bay - Montreal, and in serious head winds they would go Prestwick - Keflavik - Goose - Montreal.
All these lovely Merlin engines!!!
Andrew
EC-AQG
EC-AQH
I think it was by 1960 as the airline was founded that year, but unable to know exact date.
Javier Rodriguez
PMI / LEPA
www.aerotransport.org has-
EC-AQG C-47B-DK c/n 26763 --- to Bird Air, fate?
EC-AQH C-47A-DL c/n 20072 --- destroyed at PMI
DC-3 book by Air-Britain (1984):
cn26763: no dates for registering EC-AQG TASSA nor to Aerotechnica SA (states next N7781C Continental Air Svce 1962 - 1965)
cn20072: no dates for registering as EC-AQH Aerotechnica nor to TASSA (seems the other way around); states crashed 21Jun64 off Las Palmas
So we are still after exact dates for registering to TASSA !
Like the DC-6 Liftmaster and DC-3 Skytrain.
Nil Rosengaard
As far as I know the Seven Seas was the only model given a name by Douglas. Don’t forget the Skymaster, btw (for the Douglas C-54/DC-4).
Joel Harris
The two US official names for military DC-3s were C-47 Skytrain and C-53 Skytrooper, the RAF called their lend -lease versions Dakota)
M.West
The USAF more often than not referred to simply as the "Gooney Bird". Alledgedly, this was because it flew "backwards" in a head wind, but in fact, it didn't, it simply appeared to stand still, or not go forward -- sometimes.
Dave
I believe he term"Gooney Bird" was coined because so many C-47 landings included one or more bounces, similar to the gooney bird landings on Guam.
Fred Hack
The author Douglas J. Ingells tries to give an explanation to the Gooney Bird nickname in his book The Plane that changed the World (Aero Publishers 1966), page 166-168:
"There are tall tales of how she got that name [Gooney Bird]. Some say it originated in the South Pacific on the small atolls where the real-life Gooney Bird (a king-size seagull-like specie) makes its home. When the twin-engined Douglas' appeared overhead, they were the first metallic birds to be seen in the skies over some of these isolated islands. It was natural they shoul be given the nick-name.
Nil Rosengaard
Another mystery is the ID of a USN R5D aircraft serial number:87755-ex-USAF?-anybody know it's construction number?
Finally, does anybody out there have any info on war surplus C-54 which were sold by the RFC (Reconstruction Finance Corp) in 1946-1948 to countries abroad?
C J Turner
About BuNo 87755, check- http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/thirdseries9.html:this is R5D-3 "ditched due to fuel exhaustion 9/10/1950 and crew rescued by Navy ship. Plane sank by gunfire." No date, nor c/n.
Individual DC-4/C-54 histories can be read in Piston Engine Airliner Production List, by TAHS which is a reference book on 20+ vintage propliners and their individual histories.
Posting on the AB-IX Forum (Aug.2006) provided the following replies- "The C-54 crash on approach to McChord AFB, Tacoma,Wash. was 28/11/52 - it's suggested to have been a G model but identity unknown at present.
As for the USN R5D-3 Bu87755 again its identity appears uncertain - the date (in European terms) was 10/9/50 for the avoidance of doubt."-Peter A Danby
The history card shows it as an acquisition from the War Assets Administration in November 1946. It entered squadron service with VR4 in January.
The cause of the accident was faulty navigation, leading to the pilot decision to ditch the aircraft while he still had power from the engines. It was en route Haneda, Japan to Barber's Point and had reached the vicinity of Midway Island, hence the quick rescue." - George Kernahan
I always wondered how it got there and what ever happened to it. We used to fly in it often as kids, knowing it was going to slide down the hill farther if we weren't careful, lol.
Anybody else old enough to remember it and know the rest of the story?
Kurt.
Alexandre of Aerotransport Data Bank (ATDB):
"Item on Aviation-Safety.net (but Identity still needed) "
John M.Davis:
" This is still a problem aircraft. When we wrote the Air-Britain C-46 book in 1978 we had it in the "Major Accidents - Registration Unknown" section, and as far as I am aware, no new info has come to light.
The info we had there was: "22 Feb 49. Golden North. C-46A. Crash landed on icy runway Annette Is., AK." Someone with access to old Alaska newspapers could probably find much more information."
Bill Larkins: "I only have one registration for a Golden North C-46. It is N92854, C-46D 44-77824)."
John: "N92854 - C-46A 43-47179 c/n 250 - owned by Golden North from 1947 to 1957 (including a spell in Venezuela). In operation until at least 1962.
N1016N - C-46D 44-77824 c/n 33220 - No further information. Could this be the aircraft that crashed on Annette Island?
Another tidbit of information is that the first registered owner of NX1016N was a Douglas Miner of Seattle, WA. Golden North was based out of Seattle and Fairbanks, and I wonder if there is any connection?
Main owner of Golden North was Charles E. Evans"
Bill: "That sounds like the answer. I didn't have any record of N1016N with Golden North, but I photographed N92854 in full Johnson Flying Service colours in November 1953.
MAP
Details I have: the cockpit contained original FAA radio station licence which states FAA no. N13677FLT issued 10-09-79.
It was previously owned or operated by ATC Inc of Reno,NV (says so on the radio licence).
Googling for N13677: no luck. Was "N13677FLT" issued for a single flight, maybe a ferry flight? Another clue is that this cockpit was seperated from a larger batch (incl rest of aircraft?) when Pall Mall bought spares on Malta (probably during early-1990s).
Ed
Two R4Q-1's (Fairchild C-119C Flying Boxcar -webmaster), 128733 and 128730 departed Iwakuni for Kadena AFB on Okinawa. I was the radio operator on 8733. Our mission was to participate in air drops of equipment to Marine infantry units on maneuvers for a couple of days. Besides the crew, 8733 was carrying eight Air Delivery Personnel, who would make the air drops for both planes.
As luck would have it, Tokyo ARTC was not responding to my attempts to establish HF radio contact. As 8733 was over Kanoya, the left engine ran away and within a few seconds, so did the right one. The navigator immediately put a slip of paper in my hand with our position. The co-pilot came back and told me to tell Tokyo that we had lost all prop control.
I immediately declared an emergency and Tokyo immediately responded that time.
The pilots were able to make an emergeny perfect landing at Kanoya, although the tower operator tried to make us take a "wave off" and come in on the Duty Runway.
Talk about location. Five minutes before, or after, we would have had to jump.
Any idea what happened to 128733 and 128730 ?
Roger Wyckoff
See also Roger shares memories and photos
Here is some "prop talk", offered by Les Bradford:
It might have been a C model with the Hamilton Standard props and some of those at least, had an automatic prop synchronization capability. In the G, with the Aero Props we had to put one prop as closely as the eye could see on the RPM guage to a desired climb or cruise RPM. As I recall, 2100 was a popular cruise number. Then the copilot would bring the other prop to match by ear. When it was one steady hummmmm between the two props the crew and passengers were treated to the best sound available from the old girl. But when they were out of synch it was murder. Oorow orow, orow, wow wow, etc.
But in the C model all one had to do was push a little button on the center console and like magic: the steady hum of perfectly synched props would begin...
Maybe the auto synch feature caused the problem and they, a well trained and quick thinking crew, pulled that circuit breaker and landed ASAP with full manual control of the props, like a G model.
"
I have a hangar full of CL44 parts. Includes one complete main landing gear assembly and related parts, Rolls Royce Tyne Motor parts. All yellow tagged and serviceable.
Part from Ranger Aviation Spare Parts Inventory.
If interested my e-mail is:
reed -at- boardman -dot- bz
Reed K. Boardman
Would you know where I can get info on the first Flying School anywhere in Alaska.
I would like to know when and where the school was started!
Michael S. Rogers
I would like one day to become mechanic of airplanes or onboard assistant. It is my dream.
I like airplanes a lot because I live close to an airport and in my favorite hobby I like to collect postcards, pictures, models and other things of airplanes. Of all the aerial companies and of military airplanes of whole the types and colors.
My collection has 2632 postal, 42 models of airplanes, 386 pictures, 36 caps, 362 pens among other, it was given me by my father, 2 years ago.
I liked to know if you can send me some thing for my collection, because it is very difficult of finding here at the airport and I cannot pay for anything, because I am not at work.
And to send this email I have to ask a friend to use her computer.
My school: Escola Básica Integrada de Santa Maria
Cláudia Sofia Nunes Sousa
Ribeira das Covas
Santa Maria – Azores – Portugal
9580-019 Vila do Porto
Jill Swenson
Appleton, MN
Don't know if there are any specific Eielson collectors or museums, but he is well remembered in Alaska. E.g Alaska Air Museum in Anchorage and in Fairbanks the Alaskaland Pioneer Museum and the latter has indeed a propellor collection...
Harry Hermanson and I, Nancy Hermanson, were married on Feb. 17, 1968 and flew to Texas on Feb. 19, 1968 to start employment with Aero Service Corp. on the Texas project. Harry was hired as co-pilot under Walter Byrd who was then captain of N161V. When Walter was transferred out of the country, George Vine took over as captain of the aircraft. While in Texas Harry initiated the night flying as he was the only one on the crew who completely understood the Doppler system. The reason for the night flights was to avoid the daytime thermals causing the birds to vacillate. What with the wind and the thermals during the daytime, they weren't getting a lot of airtime.
From Texas we went to Italy for a couple of months and on to Thailand for 13 months.
We arrived in Bangkok on July 11, 1968. From there we were sent to Bethel Alaska, for a stay of 6 months.
We were employed at Aero Service from February 1968 through 1972 and Harry traveled 62 countries, while I followed him to most of them. I will always hold fond memories of N161V.
I would like to acquire a picture of N161V.
I have been through all the histories of DC-3's and found N5000E owned by Aero Service but nothing on N161V. Could somebody please help me out?
N161V (c/n 4644) has the following history as described in Air-Britain's DC-3 book (1984):
-USAAF 41-38616 23Aug42
-Africa, E Desert 15Dec42
-Oran 15Sep43
-US 08Jul45
-RFC 31Dec45
-NC51831 TWA "322" 19Feb46
-Union Steel and Wrecking Co bought 18Dec53
-N16R Reynolds Tobacco Co
-N161V Sears Roebuck and Co Inc, Philadelphia, PA, (Jun63)
-Aero Service Corp, Washington, DC, Sep67
-CF-SAW Spartan Air Services Ltd, Ottawa, Ont R17Mar72
-Geoterrex Ltd, Ottawa, Ont, 1974
-Uniran L.
->C-FSAW Reregistered 1976
-Crashed 23Oct77 20km NE of Monida, Iran.
This email arrived Aug.2006-
Someone on your web-site was enquiring after N161V. This a/c was r/reg’d as C-FSAW.
I was on the geophysical survey in Iran where C-FSAW crashed back in 1977.
We were based in Sharud, N. Iran at the time. There were 3 pilots on the crew and they rotated flying with 2 days on, 1 day off. We techs did 1 day on and 1 day off.
These were long flights, usually each over 10-11 hours each. For these flights, we always took full fuel and even had an additional 260 imperial gallon fuel tank inside the cabin.
Along with all the survey gear which was a lot heavier back then, it was a really heavy bird!
It was early on in the day, maybe about 9am, when it went in, trying to clear a ridge...
I do recall the difficult terrain in the survey area. The area had been divided into fixed-wing flying for the DC3 and heli areas for the Super Puma we were also using. The problem is that when 2 flat areas were separated by some hills, sometimes the DC3 flew the hilly bit in between. It was attempting to fly 1 of these areas that it crashed...
I recall that the survey installation had made the a/c rather tail-heavy and I’ve since learned that the a/c performance gets quite poor then.
We had been having some magnetometer problems and the chief tech had come over from Ottawa, where Geoterrex was based then. I flew 2 flights back-to-back, thereby reversing the flying schedule. It was on the day after that it crashed.
I remember the weather being very windy in the morning, with my Jeep Wagoneer almost being blown off the road!
The tech who didn’t fly was supposed to meet the a/c at around sunset and do the post-flight equipment checks. We waited til sunset and then another hour, when we new that the film would be no good.
Then we waited some more until we knew that the fuel would be gone.
They’d have to be down somewhere by then...
We returned to our house where a local notary informed us about the accident. All very sad…
Mike Barrett
Photos of C-FSAW
If any of your members or sightseers know of anything more or have photos I would be ecstatic and more than happy to respond to any correspondences.
S Haynes
William A. Hall (Dec.2004)
Not specifically the 1049G, but the book "The Lockheed Constellation" by M.J. Hardy refers to the 1049C having a "variety of luxury interiors designed by the Henry Dreyfuss organisation." The reference is on p.62 if you have the book. (Ron Cuskelly, Dec.2004)
Thank you,
Nancy"
Died of blood poisining in Fairbanks, 1935."
Fred Doyle wrote 04Sep06:
An article in AVIATION HISTORY, November 2006, described the early days of Air Mail service after WW!. It mentioned the airfield in Maywood,IL (west of Chicago).
In 1924, I was a kid 4 years old, and we lived not far from that airfield. I had a "Dutch" uncle named Frank Dorbant. (He and my Dad had courted the same girl. Frank won, but he and my Dad remained friends, and we called him Uncle Frank). Anyway, he had been a WW1 aviator and subsequently flew for the Air Mail. One time he landed at Maywood and took me out to see his plane, let me sit in the cockpit and wiggle the controls. What a thrill!
After some years we lost touch with him, but I learned much later that he had gone to Alaska and flown for the "Glacier Priest"- I think his name was Fr. Hubbard - and Frank had died up there...
I found Frank Dorbant mentioned on your website. Do you have, or can you refer me to, any other source for more information about him? I am sure that if I could put it all together it would make a most interesting story.
Dorbant has a brief mention on my Alaska 2003 page.
Anthony Martini wrote in Dec.2007:
Frank Dorbandt apparently worked in Utah as the head of a newspaper aviation department in 1921-1922. He flew locally as a barnstormer/flying circus act at County fairs and exhibitions. He was teamed up with an aviator named Rex Smith, not the same as Rexford Smith who became somewhat well known in aviation circles. Dorbandt left Utah and was a participant in the 1926 Commercial Airplane Reliability Tour, before signing on in Alaska with several different companies before his death of pnuemonia/blood poisoning in 1935 or 1936.
Anthony Martini, author of "Flying Machines Over Zion
It was N6231C, a Lockheed 1049, which back in the days, was used by Eastern Airlines. In 1974 this happened, involving N6231C...The Georgia Bureau of Investigation has a big, and I do mean big picture of the plane, transcripts indicate the correct Civil number, the Lessor was out of Miami, but the plane has simply.vanished.
I know the Connie was on the ground in 1974 in Winder Georgia and the number was N6123C, at least that what the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, the US Customs, and the Leasor said. Gary M. Lewis (Jan.2005)
-Delivered Eastern 27 Feb 52
-Leased to Pan Am June - November 55
-Withdrawn from use Feb 68 and stored at Opa Locka
-Bought by Aviation Corporation of America in Jul 68 and broken up in early 1970's
FYI: N6123C is a B-25 operated by The Flying Bull
Reply provided by: David R
home.comcast.net/~damiross/books.html
I am trying to find out more on the disposition of some of the Fairchild C-82.s during the late 40's-early 50's. I recently came upon a NACA report on crash testing under NACA Lewis - Cleveland which was conducted at The Ravenna Arsenal in Northern Ohio during 1950(?). The Air Force appearently sent in 50 C-82's to conduct these crash tests, having to build a runway on the spot. With the closing of the Arsenal, would there be any information out there as to the eventual disposition of The Packets. The Reserve is in excess of 21,000 acres and one wonders what may have been shoved in a corner many moons ago?
I have looked into the issue a little furthur and found out some additional info. Use Google - type in sp-4306, you will get a NASA report. Under contents, go to chapter 6 which gives info that 50 twin engine types, not all C-82's necessarily, were flown in for testing. Also, in Google - type in NACA RM E51L06, and you will get a complete listing of reports. After selecting RM E51L06 which takes a while to load (61 pages), scrolling down probably 1/3 or half way, there are some black & white photos of the test aircraft with one showing several C-82's in the background. I imagine that these were broken up and scrapped, but I don't know for sure. You may be aware of The Walter Soplata aircraft collection in nearby Geauga County whom has many military aircraft remains. He has a fuselage of a C-82 and I seem to recall (probably 30 years ago) that he got it from Ravenna Arsenal....
So far I have learned flights were run between Long Beach, Burbank, and Hawthorne, NV during the 1960's. The company names I have found so far are: Mineral County Airlines, Hawthorne Nevada Airlines, Air Nevada, Blatz, and I'm sure I will find more. I met a CAP pilot that helped on the cleanup of N15570 in 1969 and his story has kept me looking for info all weekend. I have read through the NTSB report and everything is exactly as it was told to me. Except for the really gruesome stuff. I'm assuming that Blatz started this flight and took it back after the crash in 1969.
As for the present owner of N67588, Tammy Maxwell, who lives in Silver Creek NV. I haven't found much info. Being that the owner lives here in Nevada it would be interesting to find out if that plane will be coming back any time soon. I would love to see some more pictures of that plane. From what I gather it is the same livery as the "Gamblers Special". If I find any more info or if you can tell me anything please let me know.
Aviation Safety Net (ASN) report
From Douglas DC-3 and its Predecessors (Air-Britain, 1984):
C/n 6320: Douglas DC-3-454 delivered as NC30052 to American Airlines; USAAF 43-1991 C-49J on 08Jan43; Service within US; Reconstruction Finance Company (RFC) 02Feb45; reregistered & leased as NC15570 DPC Eastern Airlines "383" in 1945, bought 31Aug49; Glenn L Martin Co 06Jun52; California Central; Southwest; Pacific Airlines A/L "12" 06Mar58 - Air Oasis Co., CA; Hawthorne Nevada leased May64; Mineral County A/L; Hawthorne Nevada (1966); Crashed 18Feb69 Sierra Nevada Mts, CA.
Frits Klinkhamer wrote me in Jan.2006: N15570 is also listed with West Coast Airlines Inc of Seattle,WA on page 224 of the 1984 Air-Britain DC-3 book; however this airline is not quoted in the text above (page 327 of the same book). No evidence was found as yet that N15570 was used for another DC-3 airframe.
Tammy Maxwell: she is David Gilette's girlfriend, one time owner of various DC-3s (Majestic Airlines).
John Kupka is the owner of NASCO LEASING, NATIONAL AERO SALES COPANY, is a long time airplane broker, airplane parts broker, owner of LODI AIRPORT in California, was in Alaska from 1967 to 1977 for aviation projects on the Alaskan pipeline. He is in his 70's. Any help you can give would be appreciated.
Thanks
SUSAN svcollect at aol dot com
I've come across a picture of a C-82A taken at Long Beach Airport in 1966 of a C-82A with the same engine nacelle red trim as seen in the 1965 film. The filming was done with C-82's from Long Beach Airport.
The C-82 is a C-82A-5-FA s/n: 44-22981 with a civil reg. of VR-ABD, was N136E in 1965.
I might be jumping the gun but it’s a good chance this was the one used in the brief flying sequences at the top of the film. It was sold to Aden Airways in 1966 as VR-ABD so may have flown for the film as N136E the year before?
Simon Beck.
Dave
Gordon Reid wrote: I visited Long Beach, California in September '67 which was two years after they made 'Flight of the Phoenix'.
Among the 5 civil C-82 aircraft noted on that visit was the aircraft you mention N136E and it showed signs of being ex VR-ABD and 793 of I think the Honduran Air Force. N136E was parked with C-82 N6985C of Stewart Davis, C-82 N4833V of Arabco Oil, C-82 N53228 of Arabco Oil ex 423086 and C-119 CP-693 of Mexicana. On another part of the airfield was C-82 N6887C of Stewart Davis which was fitted with a jet pack.
Jin Park
The data is not provided on the following data sheet (Acrobat Reader document).
One would probably need the original USAF Technical Order.
Thanks Bob !
Thank you!
Gregg
The data is not provided on the following data sheet (Acrobat Reader document).
One would probably need the original USAF Technical Order.
[Thanks Bob !]
I am wondering if you have come across a company called Red Star as the new name for Air Bas and Viktor's latest venture? I hear Jetline has become Jetex as well. Anything on Red Star would be most welcome. I can find no trace of them worth chasing.
Douglas
Victor Bout
Can you direct me to an explanation of how these engines were ignited, seemingly by shotgun shells? I am fascinated!!!!!
C.K.
There were 2 types in the US, made by Coffmann (This was the Breeze Company- any relation to Breeze aircraft of the 1920s and 30s?) and the Eclpise- both were sililar in operation.
The cartridges resemble a shotgun shell, and the starter consists of a breech assembly, and the starter proper. The breech has a line going to the starter, and there is an exhaust line from the starter venting out of the aircraft. The starter is cylindrical and bolted to the accessory case on the normal starter pad. The starter also has a normal starter clutch on the end.
Internally, in the starter, there is a piston attached to the shaft by helical splines, the shaft goes to the starter clutch.
The cartridge is fired electrically, and the burning gas produces a high pressure through the line to the starter piston, which is pushed down, engaging the clutch. The helical splines give it a rotational motion. At the end of the piston's stroke, a valve opens to vent the gas from the starter, and allowing the piston to return to it's normal postion. The clutch disengages normally from the engine.
Aside from attaching it to the engine, and installing the breech, it requires no modifications of the engine, and is very light in weight.
Link provided by Greg Bodnaruk
My sister's father, Gerald Brittain, was the pilot of the C-54. My sister is named Linda Joan Brittain. My Mom was pregnant with my sister at the time, and later remarried - I was born seven years after my sisters father had died.
I wondered if you could tell me where I can find a copy of the accident report for the C-54, or any other information pertaining to the search. I know there is a lot on microfiche at the New York Times; I dug those articles up years ago. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Doug Wood
The website is at www.maxwell.af.mil/au/afhra/
For inquiries: AFHRANews@maxwell.af.mil
Phone: (334) 953-2395
Mail: 600 Chennault Circle, Bldg 1405
Maxwell AFB, AL 36112-6424
AFHRA is located with the Air University at Maxwell AFB, 1 mile WNW of Montgomery, Alabama. The Gunter Annex is 4 miles NE of Montgomery.
They will answer limited questions by e-mail or mail, such as the history of one specific aircraft, but they don't like getting long lists of serials or other questions. It's best to go there in person, but I don't know what access is like post-9/11, so contact them at the above address.
Also have a look at the info about security, access, policies, FAQs, etc at http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/security1.php
Do you have any information about the restoration of the Fokker F-2 ?
I want to build a 1/4 scale model and need all kind of information about this Airplane.(3-view drawings, pictures e.t.c.)
Thanks.
In 1957 the US Navy issued Naval Type Specification 146 (NTS146) for a successor to the P2V Neptune and P5M Marlin. NTS146 stipulated the proposals had to be based on a commercial design, to save time. Lockheed won, in 1959 with Model 185, which was based on the L.188 Electra. Model 185 became the P-3 Orion.
But what was the competition, there doesn't seem to be any designs by Convair (based on the versatile C-131) nor by Martin (though a Martin Model 238 may have been pitched as a possibility) ... ??
Anyone with more details on the competion in USN146 ? Marco
If anyone ever finds Buccaneer on video please let me know. (David S. Truman)
G-AOVS and G-BRAC were both used as "Redair" for the "Buccaneer" TV series in 1979 (Alexandre)
Ruskin Air Services DC-3
I've got "Shadows" which is good, but lacks stories from the actual pilots who did the flying! I'm wondering if Rex Lezard ever took part in the flying there, I think he was known as "Sexy Lexy" and flew the Nigerian Airways DC-3 that picked up my Dad and other passengers of an Fokker F.27 that had made an emergency landing on a bush strip in Nigeria. The strip was so short and surrounded by trees that they could not get the F.27 out again with passengers in, so they brought in Lezard with a Nigerian Airways DC 3, the next day. The F.27 drivers had simply lost their way and ran out of gas, so had to land real soon - not ONE announcement to the passengers though, said my Dad...
Those were also the days of Bob Schreiner who was then in Nigeria. My parents knew him well, I believe...
Another interesting release, is the 1972 report "The Nordchurchaid airlift to Biafra 1968-1970 : an operational report". It's 232 pages and in English, made by Folkekirkens Nødhjælp. This report is available here in Denmark via the library, however I doubt it can be obtained abroad.
(Nicolai)
"Rolf Steiner - The Last Adventurer" (Weidenfeld & Nicholson 1978 ISBN 0297 > 773 631). Not an aviation book but the aurobiography of the "crazy" German > mercenary who spent time in Biafra. There are some aviation aspects (about > waiting at the airstrip for arms etc) and amazingly I found his dates etc to be exact.
"The Last Adventurer" by Jan Zumbach (Andre Deutsche 1975, ISBN 0 233 > 966234). Originally published in France under the title "Mister Brown" this is the story of Biafra's most experienced mercenary pilot who flew the ex-French B-26. Most, if not all, of the events are true but don't for one moment believe that Zumback flew all of the missions he describes. He also changes the names of most of his comrades but many can be correctly identified; for example, Zumbach's "Durang" is now known to be Roland Racoulle.
"The Cross-Eyed Spitting Cobra" by Noel Vonhoff (Crawford House, Australia 2001; ISBN 1 86 333 211-1). A softback autobiography by an Australian pilot who flew MiG-17s for the Nigerian Air Force. OK, but most of the Biafra detail has been obtained from other published sources. One or two good pictures and his pre- and post-Biafra advnetures are interesting.
"Le Labourer du Nuages" by Suzanne Morencay (Nouvelles Editions Debresse, Paris). Biography of French Red Cross pilot by his widow. Morencay was an intriguing character and this is a good story. The French operation was shrouded in mystery and contradiction. My copy is softback unfortunately; I'm not sure if there was a hardback edition.
"Breaking The Blockade" by Rev Tony Byrne (Columba Press, 1997; ISBN 185 607 2010). A softback by my good friend, Fr Bryne - the original priest who started the Caritas relief airlift from Sao Tome with Hank Warton. Tony's book is astray on some dates but a fascinating story. Unfortunately Tony changes a number of real names just to protect himself. Otherwise a good story.
Vern Polley's autobiography, "Roll Back The Skies". Published in Australia he tells of his role in Biafra as well as other adventures including his involvement of arms-running into the Yemen aboard Pakistan International L-1049Hs.
The other is Axel Duch's book which was published in Denmark a couple of years back. It is in Danish and was translated from Axel's original English text which he lent to me before it was published.
Another book that is intriguing is the novel "Last Plane From Uli". This is a novel which was published around 1970 and is amazingly close to reality despite being an novel. (Mike)
Rex Lezard was my father - I would like to get in touch with the author of the question.
Simon
There is no reference in Airlines of the United States since 1914 (R.E.G.Davies), nor is there in Jane's; New Frontier Airlift Corp.,AZ., purchased many C-82's including the three used in the (original) movie "Flight of the Phoenix"".
(Simon)
Joel F Jackson
Date: 04 JUN 1951
Type: Fairchild C-119 Flying Boxcar
Operator: United States Air Force - USAF
Registration: ?
Crew: ? fatalities / ? on board
Passengers: ? fatalities / ? on board
Total: 4 fatalities / ? on board
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: near Jackson, TN (United States of America)
Nature: Military
Crashed during a rainstorm.
(Brian and Iain).
More details on Fairchild C-119 "Boxcar", Background Information
John Bartlett
As of June 2005 the following issues were still available from the Subscriptions Dept.:
Nos.:34,36,39,41 and 43 at UKL 2.50 each (UK), or UKL 3.00 each (Europe and rest of the world).
Nos.:44 to 55 inclusive at UKL 3.00 each (UK), or UKL 3.50 each (Europe and rest of the world).
Nos.:56 to 80 inclusive at UKL 3.50 each (UK), or UKL 4.00 each (Europe and rest of the World).
Nos.:81 to 95 inclusive at UKL 4.00 each (UK), or UKL 4.50 each (Europe and rest of the World).
Nos.:96 onwards at UKL 4.25 each (UK), or UKL 4.75 each (Europe and rest of the World).
Write to: Propliner Aviation Magazine, Penn Farm, Luppitt, Honiton, Devon EX14 4RX, UK.
Also check this link: www.tahs.com/propback.html
Jeff
Alexandre (www.aerotransport.org)
I am trying to understand the issue of transatlantic flight in the early days of commercial aviation. My understanding from the books I have access to is that the DC-4, when flown from New York to London, had to stop in Newfoundland and Scotland for fuel.
Was any variant of the Connie able to fly non stop from New York to London? How about New York to Paris?
Was there an issue with range regarding with going east to west as opposed to west to east across the Atlantic?
Did the airlines have to reduce the payloads for these long flights?
Was a variant of the Connie the first airliner to be able to fly non stop across the Atlantic?
How long did these non stop flights take?
Any answers you might be able to give or reference material you can point me to would be appreciated.
William Tell
Some helpfull notes from a book called Golden Age of British Civil Aviation, 1945 - 1965 by Charles Woodley:
On 28Jun54 a Sabena DC-6B made the 1st non-stop x-atlantic flight, Manchester to New York and it lasted 12hrs56.
In 1956 PanAm introduced the Douglas DC-7C, an airliner capable crossing the Atlantic in both directions New Yrok - London non-stop in 12 hrs.
On 11Nov56 a BOAC DC-7C set a record LON-NYC in 10hrs40.
TWA introduced on 01Jun57 the Lockheed L.1649A Jetstream Starliner on LON-NYC seating 70pax in all-tourist config.
TWA made a non-stop flight via the Polar route ("Great Circle") San Francisco to London in Mar58 with 18pax and 10 crew in 19hrs05!
The Polar route was 1st used by PanAm, by DC-7C SFO-LON non-stop and managed to do this on 10Sep57 in less than 18hrs; it returned via Frobisher Bay,Baffin Island for fuel and Seattle for commercial stop.
TWA Starliners were introduced on 05Jun59 on this route with a non-stop flighttime of 13hrs10 and return 15hrs50.
BOAC by then was using Comet 4 jets on x-atlantic routes and PanAm started using Boeing 707s in 1958 (TWA did too, effective 24Nov59 on the NYC route).
Riddle Airlines flew DC-7Cs in Aug62 London-Gatwick via Gander,New Foundland (10hrs) and onwards to NYC (05hrs); the return trip took 12hrs.
Shannon,Ireland was much used as a fuel stop for x-atlantic flights too. Bangor,Maine too.
Does anyone know the history of Fairchild C-82A Packet VR-ABD for the 2 years it was owned by Aden Airways? What was it used for? Charter? Oil company business? Where did it fly to? Why did Aden Airways sell it so soon? By the way, VR-ABD was not used in the Flight of the Phoenix movie.
Does anyone have any information on the history of Aden Airways.